U.S. v Ghislaine Maxwell Transcripts
DAY 8 [12.8.21]
Day 8, starting late due to juror with slow MTA subway, day after US announced it will or may rest its case this week
Judge Nathan: We still have to wait for our juror who has substantial train issues. I'll step down off the bench.
Clerk: All rise!
OK - Juror has arrived, 45 minutes late.
Next witness: Janine Gill-Velez of Florida Property Management (that is, Mar-a-Lago).
Assistant US Attorney: How long have you worked at Mar-A-Lago?
Gill-Velez: 15 years.
AUSA: So this is exhibit 823-r, redacted [for the public]. It's a personal action notice, the hiring of Sky Roberts in April 2000.
[That is what the US wanted to establish, the hiring of Sky Roberts. So now, cross-exam]
Maxwell's lawyer Bobbi Sternheim: But you have no personal knowledge of the hiring, correct?
Sternheim: No further questions.
Judge Nathan: Next witness, "Sean."
Judge Nathan: This witness will testify only as Shawn, to protect anonymity of previous witness [Carolyn]. No exact likeness in drawing.
Witness: I'm S-H-A-W-N. That sealed exhibit has my full name.
AUSA: How old are you?
Shawn: 38. Some college. I'm a salesman.
AUSA: What was the first name of your girlfriend?
Shawn: Carolyn. She was 14, I was 17. We dated four or five years. She worked at Arby's, and she worked for Jeffrey Epstein.
AUSA: How did she meet Epstein?
Shawn: Through Virginia Roberts.
AUSA: What's the difference between Palm Beach & West Palm Beach?
Shawn: Money –
Maxwell's lawyer: Objection!
Judge Nathan: Sustained.
AUSA Maurene Comey: Did you go to Palm Beach much?
Shawn: No. I didn't have enough money to buy anything in the gas station there
AUSA: How long did Carolyn stay in Jeffrey's house?
Shawn: An hour. Or an hour and five minutes.
AUSA: How were the session set up?
Shawn: They would call my phone: Sarah and a lady with a foreign accent. One was English and one almost French.
AUSA Comey: Did Carolyn mention anyone else?
Shawn: Maxwell. She couldn't pronounce the first name.
AUSA: Did she get a gift?
Shawn: From FedEx. Lingerie and a movie. From New York.
AUSA: Did you go to Epstein's with anyone else?
Shawn: Melissa and Amanda Laslow
AUSA: How old was Amanda when you saw her go to Epstein's house?
Maxwell's lawyer: Objection!
AUSA: How old was Melissa when she went to Epstein's house?
Shawn: 16. She came out with hundred dollar bills.
AUSA: Were you arrested in Louisiana?
Shawn: Yes, possession of meth. And felon in possession of a firearm. Now I'm a salesman.
Now cross examination by Maxwell's lawyer Jeff Pagliuca Pag: Shawn, you went to Epstein's house in 2002, correct?
Pagliuca: And it was Sarah who called you and gave you her name, right?
Pagliuca: You met the government, for example in July 2022, and said the accent was French.
Shawn: It was foreign.
Next witness: Nicole Hesse, worked at Epstein's and Maxwell's Palm Beach home in 2003.
AUSA Moe: What was your job?
Mrs. Hesse: Take care of the home. I was hired by Ghislaine Maxwell.
Judge Nathan: I'll give the jurors their morning break.
Jury finally back & US introduced exhibits - under seal.
AUSA: In this sealed exhibit, do you see that Carolyn called Epstein's house?
A: I do.
AUSA: Now that we're looking at this [sealed] Government Exhibit, it says "Carolyn," right?
Next witness is Epstein's second pilot, Mister Rogers.
AUSA: Who did you work for until 2019?
Rogers: Jeffrey Epstein. As a pilot, since 1999. I was hired in Columbus, Ohio.
Rogers: We mostly flew between his houses. From 1991 he had a smaller plane, then a Gulfstream. Then a Cesna 421 followed by the Boeing 727...
AUSA: On the Gulfstream, what divider was there?
Rogers: A door, always closed.
Rogers: I kept a log book. Including passenger names.
AUSA: We offer the log book - as a sealed exhibit.
NOTE: Rogers' log book, as shown on the screen, has the entire column of passenger named redacted or blacked out.
Press question: Is there really a reasonable expectation of privacy for flying on the private jet of a pedophile?
AUSA: How did you find out the names of the passengers?
Rogers: Sometimes we'd be told.
AUSA: Would you always know?
Rogers: We were flying to Traverse City, Michigan.
Judge Nathan: We'll take our lunch break now.
OK - jury's set to come back in, Ghislaine Maxwell in red sweater siddled over to whisper in lawyer's ear
FINALLY, jury back in their chairs.
AUSA: Mr. Rogers, please turn in your binder to GX 12. Without saying the name out loud, is that the name of a passenger on Mr. Epstein's plane?
AUSA: Let's look back at sealed exhibit 662, at page 44. Flight number 916... Who drove passengers to the plane in Palm Beach?
Rogers: Juan Alessi.
AUSA: And this flight?
Rogers: From Palm Beach to New Jersey. Jane was on the flight. By first name.
AUSA: Are there others on the flight?
AUSA: Let's move to another flight. [Who else was on not disclosed, nor asked on direct]
AUSA: Flight 818.
Rogers: Van Nuys CA to Santa Fe NM, only Jeffrey on the flight.
AUSA: How many times do you remember Virginia Roberts flying on Jeffrey Epstein's planes?
Rogers: Thirty two (32) times
AUSA: This flight to St. Thomas - were Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell and Virginia Roberts passengers??
AUSA: And was there one other person on the flight?
AUSA: Let's move to another flight [The additional passenger UNdisclosed]
AUSA: And this flight?
Rogers: From Spain to Tangier, Morocco. [Epstein and Maxwell on the flight]
Now cross examination of pilot David Rogers.
Maxwell's lawyer: Sometimes the cockpit door would be open and you could see the passengers, right?
Maxwell's lawyer: And you did that sometimes, yes?
Maxwell's lawyer: You never found in the cabin any sex toys or used condoms, right?
Rogers: No I did not.
Maxwell's lawyer: Isn't it common to own private planes through companies, one company per plane to limit liability, right?
Judge Nathan: Let's take our mid afternoon break. [What is being accomplished by this cross examination
They're back, with Maxwell's lawyer Everdell still flaying around on cross examination.
Everdell: Mr. Rogers, you know the real name of Jane, don't you?
Judge Nathan: Without saying it.
Everdell: But Epstein had an assistant with the same first name as Jane's real first name, didn't he?
Rogers: Yes. [Note: This is another way of outing or doxing]
Everdell: And Eva Dubin was on this flight, and her husband is a hedge fund manager who was an Epstein client?
Rogers: I don't know.
Everdell: So these trips to Columbus, Ohio, that's where Leslie Wexner lives, right, the owner of The Limited?
Everdell: And Mr. Wexner is a billionaire, Jeffrey Epstein's client?
Everdell: And you never saw Annie Farmer in your planes, or your logs?
Rogers: I did not.
Everdell (after a time) I thought it was later than it is.
Judge Nathan: It just feels that way.
Maxwell's lawyer Everdell: Now Mr. Visoski –
Judge Nathan: It's Mr. Rogers.
Everdell: [Uncomfortable laugh]
Now at the end, more on scheduling.
Judge Nathan: I would prefer to not do the charging conference Friday (in 9 days) in case you don't have a case going that day... Given the expedition of the Government's case, maybe we can use Friday for charging.
Judge Nathan: I'm comfortable letting the defense begin its case on Thursday (in 8 days). The result may be that the jury has (this) Friday off as well.
[Things are moving FAST...]
*Thank you to Inner City Press for the coverage*
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