U.S. v Ghislaine Maxwell Transcripts
DAY 4 [12.2.21]
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Day 4. New witness:
Paul Kane of NYC's Professional Children's School.
AUSA: Look at Government Exhibit 721. Do
you recognize it?
Day 4. New witness:
Paul Kane of NYC's Professional Children's School.
AUSA: Look at Government Exhibit 721. Do you recognize it?
Kane: An enrollment application for a
student.
AUSA: Don't say the name. Is it an
accurate copy?
Kane: Yes.
Maxwell's lawyer: Objection - hearsay!
AUSA: It's a business record.
Judge Nathan: Overruled.
Maxwell's lawyer: Can I question the
witness?
Judge Nathan: Go ahead.
Maxwell's lawyer: The Professional
Children's School doesn't verify the accuracy of the info on the form, does it?
Kane: I think they do.
Maxwell's lawyer: All of it?
Kane: That, I don't know.
Maxwell's lawyer: So the info—
AUSA: Your Honor, may I?
Judge Nathan: You may.
AUSA: What happens to info coming in?
Kane: Contact the family by phone, then
invite them to tour the school and have a conversation.
AUSA: Does the School rely on the form?
Kane: Yes.
[After sidebar, document is in]
AUSA: What grade was the person applying
for?
Kane: 12th. Due to "move to New
York."
AUSA: Who's listed as person of
financial responsibility?
Kane: Mister Jeffrey Epstein.
AUSA: Thanks. No further questions.
Maxwell's lawyer: You have no idea if
Mr. Epstein actually paid.
Kane: I do not.
Maxwell's lawyer: And for the mother,
does it say unemployed?
Kane: It says self-employed. As an
interior decorator.
Maxwell's lawyer: And who is the listed
agent?
AUSA: Objection!
Judge Nathan: Just make the jurors look
at it.
Maxwell's lawyer: Look the name in the
corner. And the name of the prior principal. You don't have to say them for the
record. No further questions.
Judge Nathan: Thank you Mr Kane. Next US
witness.
It's Doctor Lisa Rocchio. "I have a
Masters and PhD from U of Rhode Island."
[After long presentation of credentials,
Rocchio is in as an expert.]
AUSA: Did you interview anyone in this
case?
Rocchio: No.
AUSA: Does your pay depend on outcome of
the trial?
Rocchio: No.
AUSA: What is grooming?
Rocchio: Strategies to get children into
sex
Rocchio: I've seen grooming in the Boy
Scouts through a special camping trip. Or jewelry, anything to make the
children feel they are appreciated.
[During the Daubert hearing, before
trial, Maxwell's lawyer asked, does this mean that grandparents are grooming?]
AUSA: How common is it for a child to be
repeatedly abused by the same perp?
Rocchio: Very common. It's by people
close to the child.
AUSA: What is a grooming environment?
Rocchio: The perp develops trust with
people around the child, for example with the parents
[long non-public sidebar]
AUSA: Are victims of child sexual abuse
likely to report it to the police?
Rocchio: No.
AUSA: How do they talk about it?
Maxwell's lawyer: Objection - no
foundation.
Judge Nathan: I'll sustain. Can you
re-phrase?
AUSA: What is the long term impact?
Rocchio: They are at higher risk for
adverse outcomes.
AUSA: Nothing further.
Judge Nathan: Let's take our break.
Maxwell's lawyer: Doctor Rocchio, you
have a $45,000 contract for this, correct?
Rocchio: Yes.
Maxwell's lawyer: If one had a brain
injury, it might be hard to remember, right?
AUSA: Objection.
Judge Nathan: Sustained.
Maxwell's lawyer: Alcohol would harm
recall too, yes?
AUSA: Objection.
Judge Nathan: Sustained.
Maxwell's lawyer: Are you familiar with
confabulation?
AUSA: Objection!
Judge: Overruled.
Maxwell's lawyer: It's filling in the
gaps.
AUSA: Objection.
Judge: Sustained.
Maxwell's lawyer: My grandfather liked
to take me to the Bronx Zoo. Was that grooming?
Next US witness is Juan Patricio Alessi.
AUSA: Where do you come from?
Alessi: Quito, Ecuador.
AUSA: When did you move to Florida?
Alessi: Early 1984. I worked for a
wealthy family in Palm Beach, I was a maintenance guy. Then I worked for Mister
Jeffrey Epstein
AUSA: How did you meet Epstein?
Alessi: I was working on Mister Wexner's
mother's house. [!]
AUSA: Who is in this photo?
Alessi: Mr. Jeffrey Epstein
AUSA: When Mr. Epstein was in Palm
Beach, where did you sleep?
Alessi: I had a room there.
AUSA: Who else worked there?
Alessi: I brought my wife to help me.
And other girls.
AUSA: How did things changed after Ms.
Maxwell got involved?
Alessi: Things were less cordial. Less
conversation. I was not allowed to see Mr. Epstein anymore, unless he asked me
question. Ms. Maxwell said, Don't look at his eyes, "look at another part
of him."
[And with that, and a blueprint of the
house on the screens]
Judge Nathan: The jurors' lunch has
arrived. Let's break.
[Alessi is describing Epstein's Palm Beach home in
great detail. Presumably it will become relevant in the testimony of Survivor /
Witnesses 2, 3 and 4.]
AUSA: Pull up Gov Exhibit 297. Mr. Alessi what is this?
Alessi: The 2d floor. That is toward Mr. Epstein's
bedroom. There was a huge bathroom.
AUSA: And what's that other bathroom?
Alessi: That's Ms. Maxwell's bathroom.
AUSA: But they both came off the master bedroom?
Alessi. Yes.
AUSA: Where did Ms. Maxwell sleep in the Palm Beach
house?
Maxwell's lawyer: Objection! But it's allowed.
Alessi: She slept in Mr. Epstein's bedroom.
AUSA: How many times did you see females by Mr.
Epstein's pool?
Alessi: 100s. AUSA: How often were they topless?
Alessi: 75% of the time
AUSA:
How about Little St. James?
Alessi:
I was on a cruise with my wife to St. Thomas. They picked us up & showed us
Little St. James. It was huge.
AUSA:
Did you visit any Ms Maxwell property?
Alessi:
Her townhome in London. She invited us. It had a red front door
AUSA: What conversations did you have with Ms. Maxwell
about this booklet?
Alessi: I told her I could not do this checklist, with
all my other work.
AUSA: Show them Gov Exhibit 606.
AUSA: How long is this book?
Alessi: 58 pages.
AUSA: What is it?
Alessi: List of what were supposed to do to maintain
the house.
[Now Maxwell's lawyer will question Alessi about the
book of instructions.]
Maxwell's lawyer: When you left, you didn't have this
in your possession did you?
Alessi: No I did not.
Maxwell's lawyer: But this book was created after you
left, at least by the date on it
Maxwell's lawyer: We object to 606.
AUSA: He identified pages.
Judge Nathan: I'm overruling the objection. 606 is
admitted.
AUSA: We you recognize the address at the bottom?
Alessi: Mr. Epstein's residence.
AUSA: What does this instruction saw?
Alessi: "Do not discuss your personal problems
with guests."
AUSA: And this one?
Alessi: "Respect their privacy."
AUSA: There's a reference to the JE and the GM
telephone directories. What were they?
Alessi: Books with hundreds and hundreds of names.
Directions and addresses.
Alessi: They were 2 inches thick. Full of names.
AUSA [for some reason turning away from the 2 black
books, at least for now] Let's turn to page 23, about Ms. Maxwell's desk. What
does it say?
Alessi: Please the directory to the right of the phone.
Assistant US Attorney: What is this?
Alessi: Instructions for serving breakfast. Sometimes
at 5 am.
AUSA: Who else worked there?
Alessi: Chefs. My wife. Ms Maxwell's assistant. Then
Sarah Kellen.
Alessi: Two females seemed to be underage.
AUSA: Don't say their names. Jurors, look at the
binders under your chairs. GX 12.
Alessi: Can I have a cup of water?
AUSA: Is that name the person we'll call Jane?
Alessi: Yes. I met Virginia Roberts too.
AUSA: When you met Jane how old was she?
Alessi: Appeared 14 or 15. She was beautiful,
beautiful eyes, long brunette hair, very pleasant. Three times she was there
with her mother. Then, without her mother. Many times.
AUSA: How would Jane get to the house?
Alessi: I would pick her up, and the direction of Mr.
Epstein or Ms. Maxwell.
AUSA: When did you meet Ms Virginia Roberts?
Alessi: I was at Mar-A-Lago with Ms. Maxwell. I waited
in the car like the driver
Alessi: It was a hot day. Ms. Maxwell said, Stop,
John, Stop. I did and Ms Maxwell went up to this girl.
AUSA: Where was this girl?
Alessi: She was coming down the ramp.
AUSA: How did she look?
Alessi: Young.
Alessi: Then by 5 pm I saw her [Virginia Roberts] back
at the house.
AUSA: Show Exhibits 113 and 114 only to the witness
and parties... How old did you think Ms Roberts was?
Alessi: 14 or 15.
AUSA: Did Ms. Maxwell ever instruct you to pick up Ms.
Roberts?
Alessi: Yes.
AUSA: Did you ever see Ms. Roberts at Mr. Epstein's
home with luggage?
Alessi: Yes. I drove them to the plane.
AUSA: How many massages would Mr. Epstein get a day?
Alessi: Before I left, thee a day. I called whoever
they told me to call.
AUSA: Did the phone books we discussed have names for
massage in them?
Alessi: Yes.
AUSA: Did you see Jane's name in it?
Alessi: Yes. The books were updated twice a year.
AUSA: What did you do with them, when new ones were
made?
Alessi: Just throw them away.
AUSA: I have a physical exhibit, GX 52. May I approach
the witness? Do you recognize it? What is it?
Alessi: It is the directory.
AUSA: Did you review it last night?
Alessi: I did.
AUSA: Every page?
Alessi: Yes.
AUSA: How many names?
Alessi: Many. Many. Many.
AUSA: Is this the same you saw when you were that or a
later version?
Alessi: A later version.
AUSA: Pull up Exhibit 52a. It is a sealed exhibit.
Judge Nathan: Let's take a break.
[with jury out, lawyers' arguments continue. Assistant
US Attorney says "We are not offering the full exhibit 52 [the black
book]. [Why not?] Now break is taken]
All rise!
Now Alessi back.
AUSA: How often was the directory updated?
Alessi: Twice a year. And the names of new employees
were added, and those who left were taken out.
AUSA: Is Sarah Kellen in this version?
Objection - leading.
Judge Nathan: I'll overrule that.
[Long sidebar, after which Maxwell's lawyer does the
questioning]
Maxwell's lawyer: As you sit here today, 19 years
later, you have no idea where Exhibit 52 has been?
Maxwell's
lawyer: You said the book was two inches thick. But Exhibit 52 is a quarter
inch thick, correct?
Alessi:
Yes.
Maxwell's
lawyer: The book you were talking about was from New York, right?
Alessi:
Yes
Maxwell's lawyer: And the PostIt(TM) notes weren't
there, right?
Alessi: Right. But it continues:
AUSA: Did you take messages for Mr. Epstein? How?
Alessi: If he didn't want to talk the call. Or wasn't
there.
Maxwell's lawyer: There are a number of pages without
dates next to the names. Do you know that?
Alessi: I guess so.
Judge Nathan: Exhibits admitted.
AUSA: They are sealed - not to be put on screens,
binders only. More more questions:
AUSA: What supplies did you buy for the massages?
Alessi: No oils, I was –
Maxwell's lawyer: Objection!
AUSA: Did Ms Maxwell give you supplies?
Alessi: Exotic oils for other countries.
AUSA: Was Mr. Epstein's door open during the massages?
Alessi: Never. Afterward I went in with gloves.
AUSA: Why?
Alessi: To clean up.
AUSA: What did you see after the massages? Towels?
Alessi: Yes. But not all of the massages.
AUSA: Do any incidents stand out in your mind?
Alessi: I found a large dildo.
AUSA Comey: What did you do with it?
Alessi: Wash it up.
AUSA: Where did you put the dildo?
Alessi: In Ms. Maxwell's bathroom. In a basket.
AUSA: How did you know where to put it?
Alessi: I knew everything going on in the house.
AUSA: What else was in the basket?
Alessi: I saw pornographic tapes.
AUSA: How often did you see the dildo?
Alessi: At least five times.
AUSA: And the other one, the massager, did the ball at
the end vibrate?
Alessi: Yes. I would put it at the top of Mr.
Epstein's dresser.
AUSA Comey: What photos were in the house?
Alessi: Photos of Mr Epstein and Ms Maxwell with
important people.
AUSA: Like who?
Alessi: Donald Trump. The Pope, I think, Fidel Castro.
AUSA: Were there photographs of naked women?
Alessi: Yes. But those were kept in Ms. Maxwell's
desk.
AUSA: Why did you leave Mr Epstein's employ?
Alessi: I was sick and tired.
AUSA: Did you sign a non-disclosure agreement?
Alessi: Yes. About both of them.
AUSA: Were you questioned by the police after you took
$6300 from Mr. Epstein?
Alessi: Yes.
AUSA: Were you arrested?
Alessi: No.
AUSA: Nothing further.
Maxwell's lawyers: We'll start our cross tomorrow
[it's 4:48]
*Thank you to Inner City Press for the coverage*
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6 Comments
Beth
you are lying about testimony stating Trump was there! I know
[US]
No one has said anything about Donald Trump being there. Day 1 the pilot said he flew Donald Trump once. Which there is a record of DJT flying from FL to NY in the 90s, NOT to Little St John Island and NOT on the Lolita Express. Any other time Trump's name is brought up,, it's from name dropping. Like when they talk about their "circles" , or a photograph. Remember, once DJT found out about JE, when JE tried to pick up a minor at Mar a Lago, JE was BANNED from Mar a Lago, from then on. Trump also turned Epstein in to authorities. I will write a blog post soon with all of the details, citations, videos, flight logs, etc. AUSA is Comey's daughter. They are still desperately trying to pin things on Trump. But there is nothing. It will be fun to watch them eat crow. Do not worry. #hold the line
Beth
thank you
[US]
@Beth I hope this helps to explain the Trump angle that they're trying to desperately to push. In reality, Trump's involvement was - and will always be - on the side of the victims and the law enforcement. This post linked below should help explain Trump's noble actions. ????? https://www.uncensoredstorm.com/trumpconnection
Dwight
I am so confused by the previous posts. Beth, how do you know that DJT was there?
JimBob
Day 5 and 6 don't work.
Jim Bob
"Maxwell's lawyer: The Professional Children's School doesn't verify the accuracy of the info on the form, does it? Kane: I think they do. Maxwell's lawyer: All of it? Kane: That, I don't know. Maxwell's lawyer: So the info—" Site doesn't look that uncensored. What happened here?
